topic Re: Why cant i directly build my dashboard on 2nd layer i.e data model(data mart) itself in QlikView

Why cant i directly build my dashboard on 2nd layer i.e data model(data mart) itself

sdmech81 — Wed, 25 Nov 2020 16:16:04 GMT

HI,

I created my data model in 2nd layer.

So I don't want to call that as binary load in another qvw file rather on 2nd layer only I will create dashboard..

If any suggestions wts the advantage if I use it as binary and create only front end in different dashboard.

Please exprets can comment bcs, I felt why to unnecessarily increase one more layer in the name of 3teir architecture..

IF really needed whats the advantage (anything like dashboard on 2nd layer may b 200 mb and if used binary might become 100mb )..

Request you to comment with valid proofs why Binary wt it ll do?

why should I create 1more layer? which will increase my task running time by adding 1more application?

Why Qlik recommend 3layer..(nt looking fr docs as I have many but need justifications)

Else I think in 2nd layr we can build dashboard..Plss comment as its going to effect entire my organization??

Sachin

Re: Why cant i directly build my dashboard on 2nd layer i.e data model(data mart) itself

sdmech81 — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:17:50 GMT

Any suggestions pls??

Sachin

Re: Why cant i directly build my dashboard on 2nd layer i.e data model(data mart) itself

tcullinane — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:45:37 GMT

You can. We do, but... Now after a few years I wish we had used the 3 layer approach.

It might seem unnecessary when setting up apps first but after a while you see where the benefits would have come in.

From being able to reload/distribute a user facing app quickly and easily, to tidier variable maintenance, or more flexibility on reloads or concurrent maintenance on UI and datamodel. Its current 'best practice' because of peoples experience. Its not a regulation or requirement.

Re: Why cant i directly build my dashboard on 2nd layer i.e data model(data mart) itself

sdmech81 — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:56:02 GMT

HI,

Thomas-Thanks fr ur reply..

reload/distribute----->I think in 2layr its cuts one more layer so 2layr saves time I guess..

And at the end in 3 layr what we say,when u call ur 2nd lyr data model as a binary its internally all data model will b residing inside 3rd layr..

Does any one has any idea on advantage of Binary load or is it a just a statement to call 1 qvw in other??

Sachin

Re: Why cant i directly build my dashboard on 2nd layer i.e data model(data mart) itself

avinashelite — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:01:04 GMT

Its depends on your requirement and the complexity of the data sdmech81‌ . Why we go for 3 layer is if we have huge data ,transformation and business logic to implement then this is must needed . so that the architecture will be very clean .

1.Layer will be only the extract from the source

2.Layer all the business logic , transformation and Aggr of data (If required)

3. UI layer

you would merge the 2 & 3 but Imagine if you want to change business logic then you need to touch the UI layer also and what if you want to show only the Aggr data in the frontend UI then merging 2 and 3 doesn't make sense rite ?

Re: Why cant i directly build my dashboard on 2nd layer i.e data model(data mart) itself

avinashelite — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:05:12 GMT

binary load has lot of advantages

1.Script security

2.If you have the common transformation or what to show to different data in a single dashboard then no need to do the rework again just binary load that file

3.you don't need to share the DB details of the binary load file it will be completely secure

Re: Why cant i directly build my dashboard on 2nd layer i.e data model(data mart) itself

sdmech81 — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:11:53 GMT

Hi avinashelite‌,

Thanks fr reply,

I have used 2layr and 3 layer based on need.But if I merge 2& 3 the ,1 layer is cut and then faster reload and also lesser complication and also easy handling as both datamodel and front end in same file.

So my question is will tht Binary statement has any advantage or its just works with same speed as loading the data fromQVD's.

Bcs many places i found simply in the name of 3-layr architecture saying nt useful..

Sachin

Re: Why cant i directly build my dashboard on 2nd layer i.e data model(data mart) itself

sdmech81 — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:13:26 GMT

And in case 2&3 are merged also back end is a different thing and front UI is different one.So i ll touch them as per the need.Like hw i do whn 2 & 3 are different.

Sachin

Re: Why cant i directly build my dashboard on 2nd layer i.e data model(data mart) itself

avinashelite — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:17:29 GMT

sdmech81‌ as I said it depends on your requirement if you get a chance to see the Banking Domain apps then surely you will get to know the advantage of 3 layer .

So my question is will tht Binary statement has any advantage or its just works with same speed as loading the data fromQVD's

I belive It's more faster then the QVD's

Re: Why cant i directly build my dashboard on 2nd layer i.e data model(data mart) itself

sdmech81 — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:24:59 GMT

HI,

I agree on few things.

Security plss alaborate..With respect to enterprise level implementation where all QVW files reside on server and all use through access point.Yess if dashboard.qvw can b stolen then 2nd layer.qvw can also be stolen.

Yess at the end it depends on situations I thinks.

And I don't thing any speed boost using binary load..I haven't seen them..infact by doing tht we r consuming more memory and loading same size twice.

SO I think its better to go binary,if same datamoel is used repeatatively I guess.

Is there any doc on Advantages of binary from QLiktech ?

Sachin

Re: Why cant i directly build my dashboard on 2nd layer i.e data model(data mart) itself

sdmech81 — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:26:05 GMT

Can u tell me if the same I do it by 2 layr wts the problem in short?

Sachin

Re: Why cant i directly build my dashboard on 2nd layer i.e data model(data mart) itself

avinashelite — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:28:02 GMT

Agreed but imagine if your showing aggr data in the 3 layer UI and you need to had one more stream of data then ? you no need to touch the front end ..Just need to change the 2 layer and rest remains the same. and same thing goes with the business logic also ...

Re: Why cant i directly build my dashboard on 2nd layer i.e data model(data mart) itself

sdmech81 — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:28:53 GMT

Any other experts WRT binary behavior ??

or is it a statement to just use one qvw in another as per need??

Sachin

Re: Why cant i directly build my dashboard on 2nd layer i.e data model(data mart) itself

avinashelite — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:36:26 GMT

You could do it no issue with that ...it depends on the situation..

*one thing I found is maintenance and handling the complex logic and data

*Re-use of QVD's formed in 2 layer(Aggr ed ) can used in other dashboard were its required

*Flexibility

Re: Why cant i directly build my dashboard on 2nd layer i.e data model(data mart) itself

sdmech81 — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:34:49 GMT

I found helffull ,only when reusability of datamodel comes in to picture,else no speed nthn..

Bcs handling logic can be done in same file..

Any one read about this frm Qliktech stuff?

Sachin

Re: Why cant i directly build my dashboard on 2nd layer i.e data model(data mart) itself

marcus_sommer — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:27:32 GMT

Maybe it's helpful to take a look on the main-idea behind the use of numerous layers which is quite simple. It is to break a big task down into several smaller ones and then splitting them again into more and more simpler ones - to be able to distribute them between various resources and to standardize them.

Of course this approach caused more working steps and adds some degree of overhead to administer them but in the end it will run faster and be more stable as with the big task. And this isn't an idea of qlik or from the IT area it's valid for the most parts of the daily life ...

If you run a rather small qlik-environment it's not essential to use a 3-tier (or more) architecture but if it's growing and growing you will get more and more benefits by splitting and standardize your tasks. This meant if you have just a few applications you don't need to create a big (overdesigned) environment but just keep it in mind that it made sense to adjust it if it grows.

- Marcus

Re: Why cant i directly build my dashboard on 2nd layer i.e data model(data mart) itself

sdmech81 — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 07:54:39 GMT

@marcus_sommer‌

Thanks for response.

I got ur points,its kind of common sense wthr to go fr 2 or 3 for well organized structure.

U mensioned,it will run faster,But how it will run faster?? As I will be having one extra layer(Its like running 2nd layer and again running 2nd layer in 3rd layr bcs with binary QV has to create Data model internally frm 2nd layer)..

IF we go with that,Dont you think we r loading data model twice unnecessarily which is burdening my server and performance.

So MY question again boil down to :

whether Tht Binary statement doing something thr?? (Like handling in 0's or 1's or reducing data modelsize??)

Or its just a statement to load 1 QVW file into other??

Sachin

hic‌ jontydkpi‌

rwunderlich‌

Re: Why cant i directly build my dashboard on 2nd layer i.e data model(data mart) itself

marcus_sommer — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 08:56:37 GMT

I must admit that I never measured this directly. But if I look on my automated daily running tasks (only for updating applications and without any export/printing tasks) the datamodels = layer 2 takes nearly 45 minutes for the update - the reports to them = layer 3 are updating per binary load in about 4 minutes. This creates an overhead from about 10% - not very much to keep different things separate.

But this isn't the whole truth - some of the reports share the same datamodel and after the binary load I adjust them by adding some small data (for example fields for dimensions/expressions for interactive charts - which are not needed in each report) and/or dropping some tables and fields. Also the available variables, dimension-groups and the set access rights per section access are partly different. I think if I would create for each of them an own combined datamodel-report my overall run-times would be longer as with my now use 3-tier architecture.

I believe there are also some more practically reasons why a multi-layer architecture might be sensible. Because of my growing qlik-environment I will switch in the summer (new business release + migrating to QV 12) to a 4-layer architecture with a further splitting of generator- and datamodel-tasks and I'm sure that I will benefit from them.

- Marcus

Re: Why cant i directly build my dashboard on 2nd layer i.e data model(data mart) itself

vardhancse — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 09:06:14 GMT

We can reuse the data model and can integrate more additional data sources :

In my recent dashboard build followed 3 - tier:

1. Reused existing complex dashboard datamart layer qvw(It was an old app which was build some 2 year's back)

2. additional data sources were integrated and then created one new set of dashboard

3. After all these we have one new set of dashboard with more data, new security and much more added advantages and more over it was specific to our own set of business people.

Re: Why cant i directly build my dashboard on 2nd layer i.e data model(data mart) itself

sdmech81 — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 09:10:11 GMT

HI,Thanks fr response

I boiled down my question as above..Plss say, if u have seen anything of tht sort..Bcs wts been going on in thread I have also done and experienced.

Sachin